« Wait video-liturgy | Main | Greenbelt Blog »

Comments

barky

sure there is a lot of editing in these things but surely the kind of ideas/attitude that was being used to get people into the church did demonstrate they weren't relevant and needed the PR help - church yard cleanups and a colourful vestment were serious considerations to fill the pews?!!

What summed it up for me was when the Church Warden (?) responded to the PR guys presentation by saying ‘we have to think of the folk who are already attending…’...

Andi smith

mmm, your all so harsh! Clean up the church yard may not be the most inspirational evangelistic gimmick to come out of that place across the pond, nor might this bloke be the most staggeringly intelligent bloke on earth, but what both of these factors share is a deep sense of integrity and that's something we're sadly in deep need of. Sure any bloke with a big sexy church can hide behind slick presentations, filled with verifiable answers, but to walk the streets of Britains most deprived nieghbourhoods, donkey or no donkey, that takes serious integrity and utter conviction. I know who I'd rather be beside in a time of need.
It might not be too long before we're all asking if we die as a church with integrity or live a lie, I know where I'll be standing.

Zo

But surely the two things aren't mutually exclusive. You can be relevant and convicted, you can be relevant and in a crappy looking church.
Father McCaskill's heart is in the right place and I so want it to happen for him but as each episode continues I can see the life draining out of him. What makes me sad is that I don't think his predecessor wants him to do good. I hated the way he appeared to just take over at that wierd singing thing.
I'm not sure if it is the editing, I tend to be with Barky on this one. The whole donkey thing was soooo random, like the idea but what was the deal with the robes?
Andi, I really don't think he's showing integrity that's about being true to the cause not looking like a madman in the streets.
Father McCaskill might be willing to be a fool for Jesus but I'm not sure he'd quite get it if you went to him with a tricky problem.

andi smith

Maybe, maybe not. All I'm saying is that in an age when the church seems to be developing an obsesive compulsive disorder with whether or not every time we sneeze, we do so in a culturally relevant and acceptable manner (lets remind ourselves that with referance to another page on this blog for a significant number of people war fits both of these criteria), then this strange guy from america pops up on our TV screens, subverts almost everything we've become comfortable with and pursues faithfulness. Forgive me for being a Methodist, but when he talked of going to those who need him most, I heard faint echoings of a certain forfather.
He acts in a way I find distrubing and uncomfortable (you call it mad), yet my concern is that the marketing desires of the church turn his faithfulness into his being subject to the powers of the world displyed in his doing the 'ritght' thing. Lets be proud of a faithful servant and not remoterly assed if he's not quite what the world would demands.
I'd rather sit and ponder tricky problems with Father McCaskill than muse my way through the evangelical world any day. thank god there's room for both of us.

barky

not sure i'm quite with you on that one Andi. I just don't buy the integrity of going 'to those in need' with the underlying agenda that in turn they will turn up in your church on Sunday. Surely to walk with the poor and needy in the neighbourhood should be to go teh extra mile for them whether they are going to come into the church or not. He seemed to make it quite clear he wasn't keen on people using the church for funerals and weddings ("taking the church for granted") without attending. I remember Jesus asking people to 'follow him' and love 'one another', not attend the temple, religious festivals etc etc. I think i'd see integrity in this if it wasn't about increasing the congregation but rather how can the Christian message affect and infect people lives beyond the congregation. (but i have only seen one episode - so i say that from a limited persepctive on the series!)

andi smith

Barky on one level I want to agree with you but then I'm left asking myself a problematic question. Is the underlying motive some kind of experiential and perverse bums of seats quota (which makes me feel sick), or is it somehow the conviction that to belong to that horribly difficult yet awkwardly beautiful thing we call church, is ultimately necassery for the wholeness of the indiviual and of the wider community. Here I think Father McCaskill may be on the verge of being horribly manipulated by chanel four.
My underlying hunch remains that this is a man of faithfulness in a world and church lacking integrity and obsessed by power. If he closes that silly building and enables the people to be the people in some alternative form he's done his job, if he creates a sexy church I fear it's all gone horribly wrong, power has won, faith and integrity have died.

The comments to this entry are closed.